PremiumBukkake.com Discussion Thread

[krull]

Really? That's how the whole thing started, he must have met *** and Mila during that time..

Anyway.. more propaganda from 'El Espanol' newspaper. Since they don't have anything to talk about in the current Torbe case, they're waffling on about some girl Torbe recorded that happened to have a mental illness:

http://www.elespanol.com/espana/tribuna ... 218_0.html

According to the father, this girl who has Borderline Personality Disorder became very ill after recording videos with Torbe and her parents sought to prevent him releasing any of her videos through the courts and sum of €8000 which they paid to Torbe to buy the rights to all her recordings. The girl had problems with drugs apparently and the parents had acted to stop her getting hold of money so she wouldn't be using. Well obviously, I feel sorry for the parents in this situation, mental illness is a horrible thing but somehow equating it to Torbe as if he knew she was ill and was on drugs is a stretch, especially since Torbe can't stand people who use narcotics. Yet this article talks about it like it's another chapter in Torbe's evil empire of crime. It doesn't mention how old she was, probably because she of age and that doesn't fit into the 'sex offender' narrative...

The article then goes on to talk about TP1, the alleged blackmail tactics (ie Torbe's guidelines for joining PL) and that nonsense 16 rules thing based on an extremely thin connection that is probably more bs from TP3, ugh. This Carlota Gunidal seems like a raving feminist, completely ignoring the fact that the minor faked her ID and the recent conversations that shows Torbe never knew she was 17 when he recorded her. Yet more bs to get clicks. Still, I'll continue to post any news about Torbe bad or good, so we have a complete archive in the thread...

[giovanna]

Thank you for keeping up with Torbe's current legal situation here. I found this forum because you linked to my blog site about Torbe. I am very concerned for him and keep trying to find out more information that would help me assess the situation more clearly. I am from the USA, and while I do not claim our judicial and legal system is by any means unflawed, I am really struggling with trying to understand how what has been posted about Torbe's case to date results in him being held without bail for almost four months now under Spanish law.

Again, thank you for keeping this conversation going here!

Giovanna
torbeentodo.wordpress.com

[krull]

Hey Giovanna, I was literally going to email you to let you know all about this link when I realised it was on the about page, but great you found us anyway! Welcome to EBI!

So if you've read through everything here, you're aware of just how utterly flawed this whole "supercase" is, multiple inconsistencies with the witnesses, just plain wrong information and what seems to be outright lies.. it's a joke. I mean I admit when Torbe was arrested, we were all open to anything because we didn't know what was going on and we're well aware that these are serious charges. Still, nearly 4 months on and a lot has happened since. It makes even less sense when you consider that *** and Mila who the police claim are part of a mafia network have been bailed.. by request of the prosecution.. I mean what the actual shit?? Now the courts are essentially deadlocked whilst the Judicary closes for the August holidays, so we'll learn nothing new until September...

Now you'll see that the original thread was all focused on the Ukrainian bukkakes videos originally, we were all very eager to get our hands on the videos until this catastrophe occured. On your blog you mentioned that Torbe shared some footage of them on Snapchat, I don't suppose you kept any of it did you? For one thing, any footage of the bukkakes is big because we've barely seen anything apart from caps from Angela's session, for another.. anything that shows these girls recording their videos without any "abuse" is possible help for Torbe's defence...

[edit]My word I've just seen your latest blog entry, I did not realise you were female!! Please accept my deepest apologies for that, I naturally assumed anyone with such an interest in the "king of Spanish porn" would be a man

[krull]

That article from El Espanol I posted on Friday is doing the rounds a bit, naturally plenty of sheep are taking everything said at face value as if he the money he requested was blackmail and it wasn't because he needed it back to reinburst his funds used to pay the girl, production costs, money for employees etc No, naturally it's all his fault that the girl was mentally ill, and he should hand over everything for free!

Anyway, here's a photo of Alina with one of Torbe's dogs.

alina_torbedog.jpg (145.37 KiB) Viewed 22417 times

What you can't see is the Kalashnikov being held to her head off camera

[giovanna]

Hi Krull...Thank you for the welcome to this forum. I am not into porn, but I will be very respectful of people's points of view when I visit here. I don't judge people who enjoy porn between consenting adults. However, I do not have anything to do with people who are involved with porn with minors.

That being said, I know Torbe has been accused of this very thing. I really appreciate you keeping this "archive" here of what is going on with his case. I have known Torbe through the Internet for several years now, and I consider him to be a personal friend. We have corresponded many times over the years. I have never met him in person, but I have a very hard time believing he has had any involvement with child porn. Torbe has NEVER been into that, from the first time I started corresponding with him. He does like the young girls, yes. But not under 18. And he has always required proof of age from the young women he has worked with.

The facts of the case as reported through Spanish media outlets sound very weak to me. However, I am obviously coming from an American legal system point of view. The Spanish legal system is very different from what I am used to here.

I did not save any of the Snapchats that Torbe posted of the Bukkake sessions in question. While I personally found them distressingly repugnant...that is only because I am not into porn. I don't like seeing things of that nature. As I posted at the time on my blog, I struggled with Torbe's use of Snapchat because I could never tell when I would go from seeing a cute shot of Ramona in the park to a scene full of naked bukkakeros! I found that a bit disconcerting.

I will say that the girls did NOT appear to me to be in ANY way under duress in the Snapchats I viewed. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. The girls also appeared to me to be operating in a completely functional manner. In other words, they did not appear to me to have been drugged or under the influence of alcohol or any other substance, and they all appeared to be willing participants in the activities. Had I seen anything indicative of what Torbe has been accused of, even in the slightest, I would have cut off all contact with him immediately. The end.

Bottom line...I saw nothing at all indicative of duress. NOTHING.

Keep up the good work with the Torbe case "archive," Krull!

Giovanna
http://www.torbeentodo.wordpress.com

[krull]

Hi again Giovanna, sorry again for the gender mistake, you have a woman's name.. I should have realised that!

No problem, this is a porn forum but this thread has had attention from many people because it has lots of detail about Torbe's case, there's probably several like yourself that do not like porn but want to know what is going on here. No I do not believe that he would ever involve himself in child porn, I initially believed that if the police had him in custody without bail then they must have good reason. Maybe they did initially but it's clear from the evidence that has been reported in some places, that it shines an ugly exposure on the Spanish justice system and the press free to write whatever gutter journalism they feel like. I also believe firmly had be had any other day job other than porn producer, then this thing would not be so exposed but it seems like people believe it adds to his "guilt" and that is just plain wrong.

In my country, this kind of information wouldn't even make it into the papers without a trial verdict, any police officer leaking active case files to the press would be kicked out fast! What do you think about the reliance on wiretapping? I believe in the states such evidence is inadmissible in court, it is the same here because it is not fully reliable, conversations can be heard out of context etc.

Curses! Nevermind, I wouldn't expect you to save anything if you were not into that kind of thing. Bukkake/Gokkun is an "acquired" taste if you like, I fully get that many people would find it "distressingly repugnant" indeed. As someone who works as a public prosecutor in your daily life, your words certainly carry weight when judging anything involved in Torbe's case from an American law perspective, despite the differences in procedure. Still Spain is supposed to be a democratic country where presumption of innocence is vital for any fair and transparent judiciary, just like the US.

It's good that you thought the girls were not abused in anyway from what you saw. I wish there was a way of being able to convey that in Torbe's defence but even if you could, I don't think it would be strong enough without such media from the snapchat sessions.

Feel free to share anything that you come across that is relevant to this thread at anytime

[krull]

Finally, we get to hear what Torbe said to the judge and prosecutors on July 18th! This is pretty big stuff that exposes major issues with Torbe's case in the latest article from La Razon:

http://www.larazon.es/sociedad/torbe-la ... IC13335962

Torbe had access to media through the tv in his cell and saw everything that they were saying about him. Angered, he asked to tell his version of events to the judge as I posted about at the time. He starts talking about TP3, how he met her through David Bass (from the Whatsapp conversations) and she wanted to do scenes because she was short of money, so he agreed and recorded several videos with her. It appears they had a romantic connection at one point. I didn't realise this but TP3 actually claims that she was kidnapped for six months by Torbe! However, she has hundreds of Instagram photos of her attending parties and dinners with Torbe on several occasions, including posing with Nacho Vidal and her birthday celebrations. Then things get complicated and she begins stealing money from his home amounting to €4000. Then Torbe left her and she threatened him and he was robbed by what is alleged to be her new boyfriend, Torbe then reported it to the police. When the prosecution questioned her on the same day as Torbe, she was not asked anything about De Gea and the hotel incident, according to judicial sources, they apparently do not believe what she has said about the footballers. TP3's lawyer is still pushing that there was a crime committed even though evidence strongly suggests otherwise. Torbe insists that he never prostituted TP3 or forced her to do anything she didn't want at the hotel.

Then he talks about the 17 year old, he recorded her videos without knowing she was under 18 and when he began to suspect she might be underage, he stopped everything with her. He never went after her, she contacted him via his site with 3 nude photos and said she wanted to be a porn star, claiming to be 18. He sent someone to collect her one time but she was not picked up from any school. After that she recorded with him several times, anything he offered to her that she refused, he never brought it up again. The video of her with Torbe and the other girl was recorded, but is was her that asked him to join in at the end. He argues that whilst she claims she was drugged, she was very energized when recording rather than showing any signs of being drowsy. The next part is very "interesting", given her statement to the judge, he ordered toxicology tests to determine if she was drugged, the results concluded that she had been taking cocaine and cannabis for 6 months, both prior and after she was recording with Torbe. Finally, he tells the judge about the time he recorded the infamous football shirt video, she saw said shirt when she at Torbe's house, and expressed her interest in football, that's why she wore it.

Well well well... that's a Hell of a lot of inconsistencies in witness statements, the drug results are particularly damning... at this point, I'm seriously questioning if this will even make it to court, you can't build a case with this many contradictions surely? TP3's bullshit has been ongoing for many years, Torbe has spoken about it often, accusing him of sex with children and forcing her to be a prostitute amongst other things, she's a blatant liar and the proof is right there. Now we've got the "minor" caught in several obvious lies too. Couple that with Ukrainians being treated fine when filming as consenting adults.. what does the prosecution actually have apart from alleged crimes involving money? You can't hold someone without trial for that kind of thing...

[krull]

Not related to Torbe but on the subject of European girls doing bukkake, I found an amazing looking upcoming release on a Japanese site with a French girl:

viewtopic.php?p=358490#p358490

[giovanna]

Thanks for the link to the La Razon article, Krull. Very interesting indeed!

As for what I think of warrantless wiretapping...it is generally not allowed here in the States. After 9-11, the National Security Agency here did engage in that activity in order to fight terrorist activity. There is much debate over that here still. In a "regular" kind of case, however, you need to get a judge to issue a warrant in order to do such a search.

I really am perplexed by the investigation techniques used by police authorities in Torbe's case. And I am even more perplexed by the Spanish judicial system's handling of it. Again, I don't want to offend anyone by making disparaging statements about the Spanish legal system, and believe me...I know our system here in the USA is not perfect...but this whole saga with Torbe makes my head spin from a legal perspective.

Giovanna
www.torbeentodo.wordpress.com

[krull]

I looked up about wiretapping in Spain, the judge has to give a warrant as well as you'd expect, so the police must have had the rights to carry it out. My only question is when did that start, if they were only listening in towards the end of the days before the arrest (and what we know would suggest that) then they're missing many months of conversations. Seems like they're focusing on Katy as far as the Ukrainian connection goes because she was having difficulty as if all the girls were like that.

Anyway, more news.. Okdiario's latest piece focuses on the reasons why Torbe is still detained without bail:

http://okdiario.com/investigacion/2016/ ... 358-319358

His lawyers requested his bail on July 27th suggesting his passport be taken and he appears in court on the 1st and 15th of each month and they argued that the risk of escape or destruction of evidence was no longer valid. However the judge rejected it on the grounds of several articles articles of the Criminal Procedure Act outlined in the prosecution's report and that there was still the risk of destruction of evidence and even "gender violence" and criminal reiteration. The judge also points out that if the case is modified or delayed, that the personal situation of the accused can be changed including being granted bail. The prosecution's report outlines that the analysis of devices taken from his home or office is not complete and the investigation is still in progress and the reasons for custody have not changed and the serious indications of human trafficking, child pornography, abuses and crimes involving the treasury. Torbe's lawyers will present their case again which could see Torbe bailed at some point in the coming days.

This was July 27th, several things have now come out in the media since that effectively destroy the credibility of the two key witnesses, this would not be leaked if it wasn't worth anything and what we know now is pretty big. The judge has to give bail given the change in circumstances now, otherwise the system is broken and by all counts it appears the judge is just doing what the prosecution want...

Would you care to comment on how a case like this would be handled in the US, Giovanna? I don't think anyone here will be offended by criticism of the Spanish justice methods, plenty of Spanish people here are dumbfounded by what's been happening with Torbe...

[krull]

Ana Rosa has a piece about Torbe's July 18th statement to the judge:

http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeana ... 55035.html

They also talk about how Torbe had all the documentation showing the age of the girls he worked with including DNI and profile photo. The police also allegedly discovered Torbe once worked with another minor in collaboration with someone from Romania and that Torbe was waiting for the girl to be of age in a few months before posting any videos:

http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeana ... 55037.html

If that's true, I mean if then that is very serious, it doesn't matter how old the girl is when the video is released, if the girl was underage when the video was filmed then that is obviously illegal pornography. But I do not believe Torbe would be that stupid and given how full of holes all the other claims are, I'm sure this is bullshit as well.

I don't know what the video itself actually says though, can anyone translate?

[edit]Full article:

http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeana ... 25150.html

[krull]

Ana Rosa is talking about Torbe again already, first part is about the mentally ill girl again:

http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeana ... 80026.html

The father deliberately blames Torbe for taking advantage of her disability as if he knew she had BPD.. sigh

Here they examine conversations between Torbe and Fran again:

http://www.telecinco.es/elprogramadeana ... 80027.html

Some of which we've already seen, some of which appears to show Torbe allegedly talking about a plan to blackmail the minor's family in order to avoid a lawsuit. If no agreement is made he will put the videos up without it being clear who it was. He would tell the police that people robbed him and stole his computer so he can say that the scenes were uploaded by thieves.

Now the first thing is that none of that alleged conversation about blackmail appears in La Razon's article that first reported this, THIS one. So could it be fake? Possibly, but I would assume that this all comes from the police's seizure of Torbe and Fran's phones, so they would have all of this on file. Of course, it's not as if the police have told the complete truth in this case or they've just allowed the media to twist the facts. I can't exactly take such a sensationalist tv program largely after ratings seriously, I always roll my eyes at the dramatic music in the background of their "reports"...

[killar83]

Hello, we still do not know anything about http://premiumbukkake.com/members, nobody knows anything about *** and BKK, I think until there is a firm sentence also not going to know anything of the Ukrainian bkk

[krull]

El Espanol's latest propaganda piece focuses entirely on the Ukrainian bukkakes, speaking of testimonies from some Spanish girls that worked as "fluffers":

http://www.elespanol.com/espana/tribuna ... 774_0.html

According to the statements of said girls, the Ukrainians were not actresses but prostitutes that came from ***. The Ukrainians performed with 80-100 men, they were aiming to get to 150, the guys ejaculated in the mouth and eyes and then they drank water and put their fingers into their mouth to make them vomit. The Spanish girl saw marks of abuse on one of the Ukrainians and told Torbe, who said it was normal because they weren't really actresses, just whores. Allegedly the statements from the Spanish girl tie in with a tapped conversation in March 2016 between two of Torbe's employees.

So.. the headline is total bullshit, "Torbe used battered prostitutes" when it is allegedly just one girl who had signs of abuse. If so, those marks could have come from anywhere.. a violent boyfriend, a fight between her and someone.. anything. If it was systematic abuse from *** and Mila then all the girls would have it, but that's not what the statement says. We all know that some of the girls have likely worked as escorts, some of them are also nude models and some of them are random girls who don't have any obvious connection to all this.. then there's Angel B. Once again I repeat, Angel is a well known legit model, if she was involved then it would have been with good reason, her agent wouldn't send her to some random pimp who runs prostitutes. Also *** and Mila have been released on bail, if there was any indication that they were part of a Mafia network forcing girls across borders and abusing them, why the fuck are they walking free right now? No, it doesn't make sense. Anyway, porn actresses often work as escorts and vice-versa, if the Spanish authorities don't know this then they are blind.

The girl putting her fingers in her mouth to throw up the sperm afterwards is disgusting but logical, given how much they just ingested. The conversation.. in what context does it take place? They talk about the girls coming from Russia not Ukraine, how much do they actually know about what they're talking about other than what Torbe has told them? There is no fucking way they came without knowing what they were doing, not from what we have learned. You can bet you that one of those said Spanish girls is TP2 and probably Isabel/Rena Reindeer, both of which are as believable as someone saying Ant people are hiding amongst humans in a plot to take over the planet

[giovanna]

Krull, the thing that I find shocking about how this case is being handled in the Spanish legal system is that these articles seem to indicate that the prosecution is opposed to Torbe being released on bail because their case investigation in still ongoing!

In order to detain someone in that way here, the charges generally have to be extremely serious, and the accused must be a flight risk. But this is AFTER the case investigation is completed! Indictments don't issue in the middle of a case investigation, and you can't use incarceration as a tool to assist in or extend your investigation.

It appears to me (at least from afar) that the prosecution is still trying to develop a case against Torbe because what evidence they have so far is not sufficient to prove the charges against him. That is something that, as someone steeped in the American legal system, just blows my mind. But then, in my limited understanding of Spanish justice, the way cases are brought against people in Spain is very different than how cases arise here. There doesn't seem to be much of a standard for lodging an accusation against another person criminally in Spain.

Giovanna
http://www.torbeentodo.wordpress.com