Zoe Valami

[Robin]

depends from where you start doing your math.

of course if you only consider the 0,5%-1% of viewers who click trough these ones convert, still under average but it converts.

if a tube video has 300.000 views, with 1% CTR and this gives in the meantime only a couple of conversions, tissue industry earns more with it than yourself.

I've seen much better convertions, but as I told you for get a sale in a pay site it depends of many factors. Sure a site like Brazzers or Bangbros with 5000 videos, daily updates and super quality content has more sales than your site. In my case I've worked and tested with an afiliate program/paysite with 5 updates a week and ratios through tube channels was very good. It was till 2012.

pd: content and site in spanish focused for spanish market, I mean that because ratios in a tube channels are not so good because major and quality traffic come from USA

[Am0rIn0]

I've seen much better convertions,

Me too a year ago. but as anything else in this biz, also tube conversion get worse year by year.

but as I told you for get a sale in a pay site it depends of many factors. Sure a site like Brazzers or Bangbros with 5000 videos, daily updates and super quality content has more sales than your site. In my case I've worked and tested with an afiliate program/paysite with 5 updates a week and ratios through tube channels was very good. It was till 2012.

pd: content and site in spanish focused for spanish market, I mean that because ratios in a tube channels are not so good because major and quality traffic come from USA

2012! this was 3 years ago! things got worse as they still do. An affiliate guy once told me in 2012 brazzers converts around 1200:1, actually my small site converts better. i mean what's the sense of 5000 scenes if you can get them for free everywhere and new daily scenes too 1 hour after published (saw cases where scenes were available even before brazzers published them).

[Robin]

I've seen much better convertions,

Me too a year ago. but as anything else in this biz, also tube conversion get worse year by year.

but as I told you for get a sale in a pay site it depends of many factors. Sure a site like Brazzers or Bangbros with 5000 videos, daily updates and super quality content has more sales than your site. In my case I've worked and tested with an afiliate program/paysite with 5 updates a week and ratios through tube channels was very good. It was till 2012.

pd: content and site in spanish focused for spanish market, I mean that because ratios in a tube channels are not so good because major and quality traffic come from USA

2012! this was 3 years ago! things got worse as they still do. An affiliate guy once told me in 2012 brazzers converts around 1200:1, actually my small site converts better. i mean what's the sense of 5000 scenes if you can get them for free everywhere and new daily scenes too 1 hour after published (saw cases where scenes were available even before brazzers published them).

the question is, really are so damaging the tubes? Right now I do not think so.

If you have a look to all major tubes like xvideos, pornhub, redtube, etc you can see that 80-90% (or even more) of the content are trailers and not so much full videos, and many of those full videos are old. So when a company have no good sales I think it's unfair to blame the tubes.

without big tubes and without webmasters with sites with big traffic (and to get traffic you have to put free content, I know this very well ) how it does a new or a small pay site to get recognition, visits and sales? by "seo"? (hehehe...) spending money in absurd erotic fairs? is the easy excuse, maybe these sites should consider whether they are really making a good and innovative contents or are doing the same than other 1000 sites, and whether their sites have proper design and programming to compete with others.

brazzers like RK, Bangbros and others, is not a good example, all those very well known brands are very saturated and already they don't get too many sales through affiliates

you like it or not the porn biz online and the free content goes hand in hand

[dutchy]

This topic should go about Zoe Valami, but It has become a discussion between a few pedants.
I think they have all some points, but this is not the place (topic) to discuss this.
It is, therefore, time for the moderator to intervene

[Am0rIn0]

If you have a look to all major tubes like xvideos, pornhub, redtube, etc you can see that 80-90% (or even more) of the content are trailers and not so much full videos, and many of those full videos are old. So when a company have no good sales I think it's unfair to blame the tubes.

All tubes have standards for content partners. PH, RT and YP for example require minimum time + cumshot. Otherwise it will not be published. Next step will be to only allow full scenes...

Not to mention all the stolen content and full scenes... by "useruploads". Ah yes and they want 50% rev share for sign up... so you give them content for free and on top 50% per sign up. btw now PH started a new premium system where paying people can download your content in higher quality and without ads.

without big tubes and without webmasters with sites with big traffic (and to get traffic you have to put free content, I know this very well ) how it does a new or a small pay site to get recognition, visits and sales? by "seo"? (hehehe...) spending money in absurd erotic fairs? is the easy excuse, maybe these sites should consider whether they are really making a good and innovative contents or are doing the same than other 1000 sites, and whether their sites have proper design and programming to compete with others.

brazzers like RK, Bangbros and others, is not a good example, all those very well known brands are very saturated and already they don't get too many sales through affiliates

you like it or not the porn biz online and the free content goes hand in hand

Dude you don't see one major problem with tubes:

- They teach people that porn is something for free you dont have to pay for - This mindset in head of most people is what harms biz, as it is not free to produce porn. I know some guys who earn 5.000+ eur net per month, watch porn but don't pay for it as their mindset is "I don't pay for porn".

If you refering to my site... it is a hobby, covers my expenses and gives a couple of hundreds extra and i would feel really dumb if i would need cash from porn for a living.

anyway do you know what amateur sites like mine did 10 years ago? i know from dreamstash it did 50k eur per month with ease when it was launched... since tubes grow all paysites went down rapidly.

minds like "tubes are a good thing and you can do advertising there so i give them my scenes for free and even pay them 50% rev share for their shit traffic" are the reason why they get bigger and bigger. now you may still say tube traffic is fine, but i will tell you have a look at traffic before tube times... and than tell me again what good traffic is.

A mod should extract this debate to a separate thread. thx

[Pierre Woodman]

Problem here, some guys doesn't understand some company ready to give their content for free belong OBLIGATORY to someone who owns tubes like Mindkeek for instance, because no one, even me is ready to spend all his money for the sky !!! try be realistic ...
Also if tube doesn't exist, yes the minors will be 1 0000000000 times less exposed to porn and violence because I don't see how they will access to my content if they need a credit card ( of course maybe some of them will steal it from parents pockets during the night, but it will be a risky things )

But OK we will never ended with this until people will not be solidar, and when I see that instead of that some guys still push about thinking it's only my money I want protect, it says all about why this world is so much disorganised !!!

PW

[Robin]

If you have a look to all major tubes like xvideos, pornhub, redtube, etc you can see that 80-90% (or even more) of the content are trailers and not so much full videos, and many of those full videos are old. So when a company have no good sales I think it's unfair to blame the tubes.

All tubes have standards for content partners. PH, RT and YP for example require minimum time + cumshot. Otherwise it will not be published. Next step will be to only allow full scenes...

Not to mention all the stolen content and full scenes... by "useruploads". Ah yes and they want 50% rev share for sign up... so you give them content for free and on top 50% per sign up. btw now PH started a new premium system where paying people can download your content in higher quality and without ads.

without big tubes and without webmasters with sites with big traffic (and to get traffic you have to put free content, I know this very well ) how it does a new or a small pay site to get recognition, visits and sales? by "seo"? (hehehe...) spending money in absurd erotic fairs? is the easy excuse, maybe these sites should consider whether they are really making a good and innovative contents or are doing the same than other 1000 sites, and whether their sites have proper design and programming to compete with others.

brazzers like RK, Bangbros and others, is not a good example, all those very well known brands are very saturated and already they don't get too many sales through affiliates

you like it or not the porn biz online and the free content goes hand in hand

Dude you don't see one major problem with tubes:

- They teach people that porn is something for free you dont have to pay for - This mindset in head of most people is what harms biz, as it is not free to produce porn. I know some guys who earn 5.000+ eur net per month, watch porn but don't pay for it as their mindset is "I don't pay for porn".

If you refering to my site... it is a hobby, covers my expenses and gives a couple of hundreds extra and i would feel really dumb if i would need cash from porn for a living.

anyway do you know what amateur sites like mine did 10 years ago? i know from dreamstash it did 50k eur per month with ease when it was launched... since tubes grow all paysites went down rapidly.

minds like "tubes are a good thing and you can do advertising there so i give them my scenes for free and even pay them 50% rev share for their shit traffic" are the reason why they get bigger and bigger. now you may still say tube traffic is fine, but i will tell you have a look at traffic before tube times... and than tell me again what good traffic is.

A mod should extract this debate to a separate thread. thx

Well, in Spain Torbe was the first one in produce porn focused in internet in the late 90s, In all interviews and articles he wrote in his site, always said that the beginnings were hard, and that was hard to start to make some money, always reinvesting the profits in new scenes. However in the era of the tubes he always is saying that is earning more and more money every year, and happy with piracy and tubes because it is great publicity for him and his site.

[Am0rIn0]

Thats easy to say by someone who does his earnings with webcam in the meantime...

For sure in the 90' it was difficult to sell internet porn as bandwidth for videos was too low and not everyone had an internet connection. Anyway from 2000-2008 you had golden times and made your money in internet porn. i wonder if torbe does any profits with his videos alone, i mean quality is beyond good and evil, he uses no lighting, you dont see any intercourse as his cock is tiny, his belly too big for pov and you can download them everywhere for free. who pays for this? nobody pays for his videos but it is for good to advertise his other services like webchat.

webchats you cant copy as a clients pays for interaction with girl. in this case for sure piracy and tubes are a good advertisement.

[Robin]

Thats easy to say by someone who does his earnings with webcam in the meantime...

For sure in the 90' it was difficult to sell internet porn as bandwidth for videos was too low and not everyone had an internet connection. Anyway from 2000-2008 you had golden times and made your money in internet porn. i wonder if torbe does any profits with his videos alone, i mean quality is beyond good and evil, he uses no lighting, you dont see any intercourse as his cock is tiny, his belly too big for pov and you can download them everywhere for free. who pays for this? nobody pays for his videos but it is for good to advertise his other services like webchat.

webchats you cant copy as a clients pays for interaction with girl. in this case for sure piracy and tubes are a good advertisement.

he does amateur porn with also couples, bukkakes, homemade videos with another guys, etc..., that's the style, no big productions

if tubes were bad for his biz I think he would fight against them

but it's better work hard and be focused in your work than not be always crying because of "the bad pirates are stealing my content"

[Am0rIn0]

i guess it was even you who told once that torbe does his fortune not with his videos but other stuff...

but it's better work hard and be focused in your work than not be always crying because of "the bad pirates are stealing my content"

na na from a producers point of view you have easy talking, or do you say same thing if somebody steals your money out of pocket? "ok no problem if somebody steals my stuff i can simply compensate it if i work harder." if thats your credo have fun to work harder and harder for less and less.

[Robin]

i guess it was even you who told once that torbe does his fortune not with his videos but other stuff...

but it's better work hard and be focused in your work than not be always crying because of "the bad pirates are stealing my content"

na na from a producers point of view you have easy talking, or do you say same thing if somebody steals your money out of pocket? "ok no problem if somebody steals my stuff i can simply compensate it if i work harder." if thats your credo have fun to work harder and harder for less and less.

If you believe that you are not making enough money with porn because of tubes, what proof do you have that the culprits are the tubes? there is a counter that specifies the amount of your own videos that are being pirated or watching for free? have you seen all these bad pirates getting off your videos from their homes? this can not be compared with stealing money from a pocket since that not even you knows how many of your videos are being pirated.

I say this because since my experience always that I hear companies crying about the piracy they are not at all the most pirated, while the most pirated companies are the bigger and who makes more and more money.

when I enter to xvideos or any typical pirate site with full videos in streaming or for direct download I see tons of videos of naughty america, mofos, brazzers, reality kings, teamskeet, bangbros, etc, etc... all them big companies who makes millions of dollars but almost I don't see any of your videos or PW.

So what's the problem?

[Am0rIn0]

my sources are - as mentioned before - some internet porn pioneers, i know for example figures of dreamstash during its golden times before tubes. what figures of pornsites before tube times do you know?

while the most pirated companies are the bigger and who makes more and more money.

It is because big ones can compensate their dropping conversion rates with traffic or are already owned by a tube which chips in to keep them alive... every big porn company not in a tube network will go down in the long run.

lets do the math for you. if your conv rate was 2005 - 100:1 and 2015 - 1500:1, a big company can compensate by increasing traffic 15x times to keep same turnover nominal. so there is a war for traffic which also tubes will win in the end.

when I enter to xvideos or any typical pirate site with full videos in streaming or for direct download I see tons of videos of naughty america, mofos, brazzers, reality kings, teamskeet, bangbros, etc, etc... all them big companies who makes millions of dollars but almost I don't see any of your videos or PW.

you still dont get it, it is not only about stolen scenes but especially about tubes putting a mind set into people's head similiar to this: "porn is for free and if you pay for it you are a desperate idiot".

but your naivity is symptomantical for this biz. every other biz (movies, music) fights piracy how they can and i don't know any tube where you can watch hollywood movies in big style. but in porn biz dudes like you are even very happy that porn tubes are existing. it is kind of funny.

Everything said, this debate is over for me.

[sbando]

Enough.

[alroi]

Iza looking amazing at realitykings.com

[Pierre Woodman]

Tomorrow :
http://www.woodmancastingx.com/casting- ... _9029.html

ZOE-VALAMI---HARD---BED-+-3.jpg (78.69 KiB) Viewed 17367 times

PW