Will porn no longer be profitable in the future

[yenping]

Very intelligent answer, philippe. Porn is one of the world's most popular forms of entertainment and will never die no matter how much free stuff is out there.

It's a simple matter of economics; we'll just see cheaper girls from Russia willing to do nastier acts; who doesn't like that? If Woodman can't adapt, then that's too bad. Maybe he should go sell pencils in a few years.

[Pierre Woodman]

And ? If for instance I stop and everybody stop "the train", where will you go ??? I'm sure you'll be very happy to ..." walk " !!!
I will not continued this discussion, it's a lost of time for me, if people are not able to understand that something somebody paid to produce can be a "gift" for the other and it must be paid if you want that person produce more, in that case something doesn't work in your head and I don't need loose time on that topic !!!

PW

[Mr_White]

"If porn would be dead by tomorrow, I couldn´t care less".

This is what I read from the comments of those who are trying to justify theft. I also understand that even many of our valued members - in one way or the other - at least have a "pro-piracy" tendency or a "pro-piracy" affiliation. Each to his own. But, than again, stop whining about the drop of quality porn and all.

I guess there will always be porn. Because a) there are always young people who like to earn some quick cash and b) there always will be "investors" who think porn is a good business to become rich. The question is: Will there be quality porn in the future. I believe that the days of quality porn are counted. This is what this topic is about....

[yenping]

I strongly disagree that the quality of porn has declined.

[philippe xxx]

I will not continued this discussion

"Stop talking to me ! I don't want to do porn !" the girl says with an angry voice.

it's a lost of time for me,

"Why you waste my time ! I came here because the girl told me it was a modelling job !"

if people are not able to understand that something somebody paid to produce can be a "gift" for the other and it must be paid if you want that person produce more, in that case something doesn't work in your head and I don't need loose time on that topic !!!

"If you can not understand that I'm not the kind of girl who fucks men for money, then there is something wrong in your head ! Keep you porn shit for yourself, you pervert !"
The girl throws the porn mag on the table, gets up from the sofa and walks out the door... End of scene

As a sidenote, I paid mor for porn in the last 3 months than I did in the last 5 years...

[claudia_rossi_fan_1]

Even serial killers and child molesters find ways to justify their acts.

Trying to convince meth addicts (aka people free loading everything on the net) that what they are doing is wrong is useless.

And I ll say it again, the only company which is thriving on the net is manwin and they are using methods both Al Capone & Tony Soprano would be proud of.

[yenping]

Porn will never be copyrightable.

Is saving a nude photo you found on Google piracy? If not, how is it any different from saving a video?

...or an audio file? iTunes has been around for ten years yet I've never used it in my life. I can get all the music I want for free.

[bakerboy]

And ? If for instance I stop and everybody stop "the train", where will you go ??? I'm sure you'll be very happy to ..." walk " !!!
I will not continued this discussion, it's a lost of time for me, if people are not able to understand that something somebody paid to produce can be a "gift" for the other and it must be paid if you want that person produce more, in that case something doesn't work in your head and I don't need loose time on that topic !!!

PW

I agree with Pierre, There is no more "entitlement" then getting a free Pepsi in your corner grocery store. Stealing is stealing.

[dap-addict]

What I dont understand is why everybody here is ranting about how cute and nice certain Eurobabes are, how much they love them and care about them.
But a simple act of giving something, some heard earned money to them seems like too much asked for!
Its like those girls didnt have to eat, pay rent, pay for life!

The same goes for porn producers of course - but they are maybe not as close to many porn fans heart as the girls are.

[yenping]

It depends on the girl. If it's a slit-eyed blond plastic bimbo like Sandy or Sophie Moon who prevent 21sextury from growing, then I do NOT want to donate a single penny.

[philippe xxx]

I agree with Pierre, There is no more "entitlement" then getting a free Pepsi in your corner grocery store. Stealing is stealing.

Well fortunately for us, PW is clever enough to not focus on the morality of this topic, because of course morality is something very relative (luring poor east european girls into porn, is that moral ? Yeah I know it's much more complicated than that, but it's _also_ that). Instead he focus (and he does this ad nauseum on his forum, not that I mind just an observation) on the consequences for the consumer: ie "there will be no more porn from me if you faithful members stop supporting me and join the pirates !!!"

Is that effective ? I would say, probably for the most addicted of his customers who really need _his_ stuff, but I doubt it is for the majority of people who would find their daily fix elsewhere anyway.

Really, nothing to do with morality.

[phunkey]

It depends on the girl. If it's a slit-eyed blond plastic bimbo like Sandy or Sophie Moon who prevent 21sextury from growing, then I do NOT want to donate a single penny.

Jeezus, take it easy! Everybody has their own tastes, but there's no need to be disrespectful to porn girls. Besides, neither Sandy or Sophie Moon stand in the way of 21sextury's growth.

EDIT: Just saw that yenping is banned by now. Just as well!

[robot]

yeah yenping is as chinese as the pope. i suspect the same brawny or one of the dumb @#$^*! ersatz

[OneWhoKnows]

Interesting thread. Ok, this is going to be LONG, but after reading the whole topic there are a few things I have to say.

First of all, about Manwin. Just saying "they are evil" is a little bit too much of black/white thinking for me. As I guess that the vast majority in here doesn't know who Manwin is and how they are involved in illegal tubes, I try to show it in a few steps:

- A couple of Canadian college guys found a network of porn sites first known as Jugg Cash, then as Brazzers.
- To drive more traffic to their sites they start tubes with user uploads enabled, such as KeezMovies, Tube8, PornHub and a few others. They all get pretty huge and they don't care about copyright theft, earning hefty profits from ads on those tubes.
- Fabian Thylmann, one of the creators of insanely popular affiliate tracking system NATS (everyone marketing porn sites knows this script) sold his shares of the company behind NATS and is searching for new ventures. He starts with buying German amateur portals PrivatAmateure.com and MyDirtyHobby.com and doubles their profits in no time.
- The Canadian college guys got huge and open a holding company for their projects, called Mansef.
- After the success with the German portals, Fabian Thylmann is seeking for new ventures to buy. Finally he buys the Mansef company (including Brazzers and their tubes) and renames it to Manwin. He also buys another very large porn tube, YouPorn.
- Now after all these sites bought, he and the other people at Manwin think how to better optimize profit of the tubes. So they turn the "illegal" tubes into legal ones, stopping user uploads and cutting deals with content providers to promote their own sites through these HUGE traffic tubes.

So yes, Fabian (known on boards as Nathan) knew that there was copyright theft all over the place on the tubes when he bought them. Which sucks, because the money he made from ads after buying the tubes is dirty money imo. And although I don't like big mouthed Nathan too much, with going the legal way after buying the tubes he started a new trend. All the other big free tubes such as RedTube, XVideos, XHamster and so on followed his example and started working together with the copyright owners. Sure, those ppl are scum, as they didn't buy illegal sites (like Manwin), they founded them. And now they profit again from traffic they don't deserve. Anyway, these huge tubes going legal in the end is still positive for copyright owners.

So the true evil guys are the original creators of Brazzers and PornHub, who also owned FileSonic btw, a file locker who even paid people for commiting copyright infringement. I'm not going to say Manwin's past is as white as snow, and surely they are not the saviours of the porn biz. They are surely a big company recklessly going their way to become the biggest porn company in the world (which they already are, afaik). But they are also not as bad as some people say they are.

So much about Manwin. About the general state of the biz. The people who suffered the most from all the copyright infringement, especially from complete siterips available on forums and blogs, hosted at file lockers, are small companies and webmasters. Affiliates aswell as small affiliate programs. The way of the usual porn site owner worked like this for a long time:

- A guy starts making money by promoting existing websites, often from his basement, dorm room, whatever.
- He grows and grows, managing several free sites (Blogs, TGP's, Review sites) with a nice amount of traffic, hopefully saving part of his profit.
- After earning enough with affiliate marketing he invests the money he made in content. This means our webmaster has an idea for an own paysite, finds someone who shoots porn for him, right the way how he wants it.
- After the first paysite comes the second one and our webmaster eventually has his own affiliate program with a network of paysites, usually several content producers work for him.

Now guess what happens when general market revenue goes down and down and down due to copyright theft. Then we also have a concentration of traffic because of the big tubes. The small guys are not able to generate traffic anymore and before they can grow large enough to start their own paysites, they leave the business. This means the smaller affiliate programs, who don't have a lot of own traffic lose a lot of valuable traffic, because their affiliates are leaving. This also means that the smaller content producers (a lot of them from Russia and Eastern Europe) are losing clients and have to stop the biz aswell.

So the end result? A few huge companies like Manwin will control the whole market. The others will eventually continue business, a lot of them with non exclusive content, to keep the profit margin at a reasonable rate. But most will quit. So of course the biz won't completely die, but diversity will. Prepare to see a lot of your favourite sites going down sooner or later. And prepare to see the big networks with mainstream content grow and grow.

So much about my opinion of the future of our business. Respect if you made it this far and read my whole post Now have a nice Sunday everyone.

[budtugley]

I play bridge, the card game, and my Wednesday night partner owns a wig shop. She speaks fluent Spanish and a guy comes into her store and sells pirated videos for $5 cash. She's bought a few, I've looked at a dozen of them, sometime the quality is good, sometimes it isn't. The guy prints a decent boxcover but the disk is a plain 4.7GB DVD disk. This is actual theft, selling something that doesn't belong to the vendor. She bought Avatar from him before it was available on DVD, it was produced in Holland, had 5 languages on it and 3 subtitle capabilities. I'm sure James Cameron would be royally pissed off if he knew about it. There must have been an amazing chain of distribution for a Mexican vendor to sell Dutch-produced dvd videos in the US door-to-door to Anaheim businesses. A friend of mine's girlfriend owns a tavern close to my bridge partners wig shop, the same guy goes in there and she buys his videos all the time. She's Vietnamese, Asians have a lot less respect for copyrights than Americans or Europeans. Apparently, the guy makes his living that way. I find it to be distasteful, I have family members in the music and film industries, both lose lots of revenue due to piracy. I wouldn't turn the guy in to the authorities, but I wouldn't do business with him.
A friend of mine is an attorney and he represented a strip mall owner who rented a store to a Vietnamese guy who posted the North Vietnam flag in his window. That's like giving the big middle finger to most in the Vietnamese community in Orange County. The owner knew the store might be fire-bombed, he wanted that tenant out but it took time for the eviction process. The store was vandalized, the guy calls in the cops who find 40 VHS machines hooked up in series to make copies of movies. This was about 15 years ago, the cops found thousands of pirated VHS tapes in the guys store. That was an actual piracy operation. The guy did some serious prison time.
The North Koreans print US $100 bills by the millions. There are certain counterfeiting measures that can detect them and they're more common than the US government would care to acknowledge. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Iranians might be doing that too. Interesting mode of warfare isn't it. Piracy or counterfeiting could be a form of warfare.